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Talk:Shuma-Gorath (Multiverse)
Can someone please check this article to ensure it wasn't directly copied? Thanks... --Jamie 22:29, 3 December 2005 (Eastern Standard Time) :If so, can someone tag and copy edit it? Thanks again... :Jamie ::It didn't seem to infringe on anything when I checked (though I know it did when Loki looked over it in 2005). The history wasn't exactly complete either, so I just rewrote it. ::--WhyBother 07:07, 2 January 2007 (UTC) Not from Earth-616? According to the fact that the majority of Shuma-Gorath stories are aimed at preventing him from entering the universe, and the nature of him and the other Many-Angled Ones (Earth-10011) in Thanos Imperative being so supreme because the universe is closer to where they are, should we list him as "Shuma-Gorath (Multiverse)"? Listing him as purely from Earth-616 seems rather simplistic. --GZilla311 (talk) 16:59, May 23, 2014 (UTC) :Shuma-Gorath, along with the others Many-Angled Ones, were born outside reality in the spaces between universes. Since he acquired its own individual identity, he tries to invade universes to rule over them. As Blade (as Ronin) said in Mighty Avengers, the Shuma-Gorath they were fighting off was only a small part of him. I think we should list the Many-Angled Ones as a Multiversal being, the Shuma-Goraths of Earth-616 and Earth-TRN177, for example, represents the small parts of him that are trying to invade the realities that they are supposed from, so I don't know what exactly to do with them. :--Shadow oogie (talk) 03:36, May 24, 2014 (UTC) ::I'm thinking we can put him as a Multiverse entity and have those parts labeled as "Shuma-Gorath Fragment", or label them in two distinct histories. One for Earth-616, one for Earth-TRN177. Like a subsection, and within that the section for the universe as a whole, but labeled as "Shuma-Gorath (Multiverse)". It seems to be far more accurate than labeling him as just for Earth-616, comic wise. ::--GZilla311 (talk) 03:47, May 24, 2014 (UTC) :::There's one more Shuma-Gorath, he's from Earth-9411. We can try to rename "Many-Angled Ones (Earth-10011)" to "Many-Angled Ones (Multiverse)" and write a section for Earth-10011 invasion. When can we get it started? :::--Shadow oogie (talk) 04:22, May 24, 2014 (UTC) ::::Probably soon. Unfortunately I will be busy this weekend, so can someone else try to fix it up? Also I apologize for the confusion. I just think that we shouldn't be associating him just with Earth-616 is all. In order to avoid confusion, though, maybe we can also list his existence as actually NOT in any of the universes in his history, like saying this is just a fragment of him entering Earth-number at the beginning of each History section. How does that sound? ::::--GZilla311 (talk) 14:12, May 24, 2014 (UTC) :::::As the Many-Angled Ones are a race, there's no need to put (Multiverse) on it. About your idea, I think we shouldn't do this until someone confirm his origins. The Many-Angled Ones were born outside reality, Shuma-Gorath is the oldest of them and he has his own dimension, probably from where he came from. I think it exists within each one of the universes, there's one in Earth-616, one within Earth-10011, etc. :::::--Shadow oogie (talk) 23:26, May 24, 2014 (UTC) ::::::In such a case, should the one present in Thanos Imperative be instead labeled Shuma-Gorath (Earth-10011)? For sake of consistency. ::::::--GZilla311 (talk) 01:07, May 25, 2014 (UTC) :::::::After a long time thinking, I concluded we should create a "Shuma-Gorath (Multiverse)" page as you suggested. He's indeed a multiversal being, it's not confirmed by any writer, but the stories he's in implies it. :::::::--Shadow oogie (talk) 21:13, May 25, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::Do you think you can set it up? I'm not sure how to organize it. I mean, we can probably put it in order of the release dates on various issues, but I'm not 100% sure on how to do so. ::::::::--GZilla311 (talk) 21:14, May 25, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::It could be easier if we rename "Shuma-Gorath (Earth-616)" to "Shuma-Gorath (Multiverse)" and then incorporate his Earth-TRN177 and Earth-9411's fragments into the renamed page before excluding "Shuma-Gorath (Earth-TRN177)" and "Shuma-Gorath (Earth-9411)". What do you think? :::::::::--Shadow oogie (talk) 21:36, May 25, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::I agree, though also including his fragment from Earth-10011, and any others that might come up. Presumably in order of their publication unless otherwise stated by things such as the overall origin. ::::::::::--GZilla311 (talk) 23:53, May 25, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::Still, we would need an official confirmation that he's a Multiversal being in order to merge the pages, we can't display information based on assumptions. :::::::::::--The ADour-incible ADour (talk) 21:25, May 27, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::When Shuma-Gorath first reveals himself to Doctor Strange using a negative image of Ancient One, he tells him that he was spawned in a dimension diametrically opposed to our own. That's the most detail given on Shuma's origin (aside from the whole Many-Angled Ones story). I did like the newest info about him where Spider Hero said they were only fighting a tiny aspect of his true self, as it supports his role in the Many-Angled Ones. Actually, I liked this one post I found where the MAO's were described. "The moniker "Many-Angled Ones" is meant to say that they exist in several dimensions, and that what we see is only one angle of them; they are literally dipping into our level of existence. What someone sees of Shuma-Gorath and the other Great Old Ones is just only the barest fraction of the monster's true form, the 3-dimensional tip of a multidimensional iceberg." In any case, I think there's enough information in the comics that say with certainty that Shuma-Gorath is not a 616 native and has existed in other dimensions, so 'Multiverse' seems to make more sense than 616 given that we're using multiverse in terms of origin and not like 'multiversal' in terms of power level. ::::::::::::--Sise-Neg (talk) 23:46, May 27, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::::I guess that's a reason good enough. :::::::::::::--The ADour-incible ADour (talk) 00:43, May 28, 2014 (UTC) A dimension and a universe are different things in marvel, I've seen absolutely no evidence to suggest that Shuma is legitimately form an alternate universe. --Betatesthighlander1 (talk) 00:43, May 28, 2014 (UTC) :The word dimension was often used interchangeably with universe back in the day, certainly when Shuma-Gorath was introduced in the 70s. That aside, Shuma-Gorath's home dimension is located 1,000 planes of reality away from Reality 616. Pocket realms like Mephisto's realm, Asgard, Shuma's realm, etc are located outside Earth-616 and exist in their own space. So Shuma-Gorath, having been spawned in another dimension, has no ties to Reality-616 outside of the times he's invaded. :--Sise-Neg (talk) 01:17, July 17, 2014 (UTC) ::Those realms, or dimensions, are not located outside Earth-616. For each universe there's an Asgard, a realm of Mephisto, etc. ::--The ADour-incible ADour (talk) 01:56, July 17, 2014 (UTC) Multiverse? Do we have good evidence he's genuinely multiversal? Thor has been referred to as extradimentional on panel before, but we consider him a 616 native. :I find it very unlikely there is only one Shuma-Gorath in the multiverse, mainly considering that his ending in Marvel Super Heroes arcade game he gains the powers of the Infinity Gems and starts destroying the universe (or the alternate one seen in his ending). If there is only one Shuma, how did he not retain those powers? :--Zakor1138 (talk) 22:20, October 13, 2015 (UTC) ::Maybe he has muliple bodies in different corners of the Multiverse but has only a single mind, just likr Transformers' Multiversal Singularity stuff. ::--Primestar3 (talk) 18:02, October 23, 2015 (UTC) :::Isn't that seemingly the same problem than there is with Mojo (allegedly only one version, but in fact many due to other medias)? :::--Undoniel (talk) 19:03, October 23, 2015 (UTC) ::::But since Multiverse is infite, shouldn't he's has infinite counterparts too? Shuma Gorath's mind may be linked to all his bodies, so this maybe explains Shuma-Gorath being a unique being in the Multiverse. Also when did it stated Shuma Gorath was a Multiversal Singularity? ::::--Primestar3 (talk) 19:21, October 23, 2015 (UTC)